EPISODE 255

Can you have love and money?

February is Love and Money month, so this week on Chill & Prosper, we’re talking about something that so many of us wrestle with: how money impacts our relationships.

In this Q&A episode, I answer your top questions, including:
✨ What happens when a woman earns more than her partner?
✨ How to navigate power dynamics without resentment
✨ Why outsourcing at home isn’t indulgence - it’s survival
✨ Helping a partner with their money mindset (without nagging!)
✨ Why love and money can co-exist - even if there aren’t many role models

If you’ve ever felt guilty for earning more, or worried that money might mess with love, this episode will give you clarity, compassion, and lots of permission.

xx Denise

P.S. For Love & Money Month I’ve created a free Meditation Pack to support you with money conversations, boundaries, and feeling grounded in your relationships.

It’s the perfect companion to this episode if you want to feel calmer, clearer, and more confident when talking about money with your partner.

Download your free audio and reflection workbook here

Transcript

Prefer to read?  Here is the transcript for this episode:

 Welcome to another episode about partners and money. Because we have so many questions in the inbox about this that we had to do two different episodes on it.

So, hopefully I don't know when the schedule is, but maybe there'll be a bit back to back. So I'm just going to jump into it because I ran out of time last time, and I want to make sure I cover them. Right. So the first question is from Sharon, and, she's saying, I'd like to know how the dynamics of a relationship like marriage works when we become successful and stop making the money.

How does that work with the dynamics of the man husband? Years ago he was known as the breadwinner of the provider. And now is when we sometimes supersede what the man in our life makes. So does that mean we're expected to continue the household chores, looking after the family and the home? Or should it be equal? Oh, this is so juicy.

Or to the point the man takes home more of the household chores as the woman is making more. Sometimes these dynamics are hard. I know my husband works hard, but so do I and I'm making a lot more money than he is sometimes. Yeah, I'm expected to do all the household stuff too. Oh my god. So question about the dynamics in the marriage.

If the women i.e. me and a lot more. I love to communicate, but sometimes it falls back into the old ways of me doing it all, and I actually feel sick of it. I also heard, a top millionaire coach share how she's not done the washing in over five years. Is her husband do that? Does that, I loved it, why not roll reverse?

Oh my goodness Sharon. So good. So, I've recently done another episode on relationships, but I, I've done it, an episode recently on outsourcing too, because someone asked about hiring a housekeeper. Right. So if you haven't already, Google, there's an article that I wrote a couple of years ago about exactly what help I have as a multi-millionaire.

And I explicitly put that is the headline. It's on medium. I might put on my website as well, but I did that because I knew it was going to get flack. And there's something really, I think, judgy that happens when a woman in particular says that she doesn't want to do a lot of household chores. Now, in some countries, this is totally normal to have a lot of help, full time help in families and in some cultures, it's not okay.

And it's almost seen as very noble, you know, to take care of your own house and somehow shameful to pay another woman to do it. Even if you're paying someone really well. And I've had people say you're exploiting a woman. I'm like, no, I pay very well, and I am very flexible. I'm a great employer, actually.

And I've had people say, your kids are not going to learn how to do things. And what about your poor husband? And I even had my mom, who is such a feminist. But she was like, oh, poor Mark, she said to a friend, Denise does nothing, I don't my, okay, interesting. So there are a lot of judgments, I think, in this, because it is seen as sometimes the woman's role to do all of those things, even if she earns more.

And there are actually studies that show that sometimes when a woman makes more, she actually does more at home. Which you'd think would be the reverse, right? But it's almost like trying to overcompensate or something like that. Now, I've also talked about how, when Mark came into my business, it was a really interesting thing for him because even though it made sense for him, especially as we're having kids, to have that flexibility of him working in the business, even though, you know, he likes helping women, but it's not like he's it's his personal, intimate mission like it is for me.

Right? So it's not like he's getting the juice out of it. Like I would get, and I acknowledge that. But his biggest concern, he was like, what am I going to tell people? I do, and I totally get that from a masculine point of view. Right? It's like it's still seen as really the masculine like role to be the breadwinner.

But now, of course, we live in so many different scenarios as people who, you know, single parents or, single people, and it's not really the case, but it's still kind of somehow a little bit indoctrinated in us. And he was thinking, what if we're having a barbecue and someone's like, what do you do? And he says, I work for my wife, right?

And so I loved that he could express that. And I was like, I love that you can express that. I think you should talk to your therapist about it in your men's group about it, because that's not something that I can solve for you, dealing with what it brings up about your masculinity, you know, and I was just very honest about that.

I'm like, I love that you can have this conversation. And and also, this isn't my job to fix this for you. And I think that's been such an interesting dynamic. I've been reflecting on it a lot recently, is how much, my grandmother's era put up with so much stuff because they didn't have economic power and they didn't have money to leave in general.

And that was very drummed into me as a kid of like, having running away money and having your own money, so you didn't have to be stuck in the situation because my grandmother was stuck. Right. She didn't have a great marriage. And she would like, say to me all the time that she she's like, I hope your granddad dies this year.

And I'm like, he wasn't even that old or sick, but she just didn't want to be stuck. But she had no other choice. Right. So, I think about that now, is that there is, a lot there are a lot of articles about how a lot of women aren't having kids at the moment or people aren't getting married or, you know, there's a male loneliness epidemic, all this kind of stuff.

And I'm like, oh, it's because we don't have to put up with stuff anymore. Like, we don't have to. And I can feel that power dynamic shift in my relationship where I'm like, no, my happiness is important too. And I, I have had that confidence because I know that I can make my own money and I don't have to, I don't have to put up with stuff.

And that has been really hard for Mark as well. Right? Because he's had to step up as a man and I haven't I, I, I'm like, I don't feel the urge to fix all the things for you. And that's really tricky because it would be much easier if he married someone who didn't. He wasn't ambitious. I don't often think that you would have such an easy life.

Just marry someone who isn't ambitious, who has big boobs, and that's on me. But he chose it. It seems that. Yes, but, I think this is just such an interesting conversation. And what happens because it's not that many generations where women have had a bit more of this power. Now, people listening, you might think, oh, I saw my mom make heaps of money, or I saw my grandmother.

You would be like, kind of a bit rare, you know, in a way, because, I mean, I'm 46, so if you're heaps younger than me, you might have seen like at least one generation of women work full time, if not to. But it I did not have that experience and so I wasn't able to see what that power dynamic look like.

What I saw for my mom is that she, left school young. She had a baby at 17, 18, you know, 21 was her second baby, and she didn't have the education or experience, or she didn't live in a world where she could make money. My mum is a genius. Like she's so smart, she's so amazing. But she was born in an era where she couldn't monetize that and so she didn't have economic power.

And what I saw when she was in a relationship with somebody, the power dynamic would shift, right? And she married, like an older man when I was 11. He was wealthy and he was very controlling, you know, and and she would handle it for a while. And then we'd move out. She handle it for a while and we'd move out, and we moved in and out of his mansion, I think about 4 or 5 times over the space of a couple of years, and that really showed me from a young age, like, you have to have your own money.

And I think it, it gave me, this is the thing I think we all have to wrestle with too, is where are we overcompensating for those experiences? And I know for me, hyper independence is a trauma response. From that, I find it really hard to ask for help. I find it really hard to trust, and I don't think I could be in a relationship where I wasn't the main breadwinner.

Right? So what I have to do then is to try and see what role models my setting for my girls. So maybe they don't have to overcorrect as much as I did. And I hope that's true. Right? Where maybe. Well, I mean, God, we thought men or by now would be sensitive new age men, and some of them have turned worse.

Oh my God, I'm going to get canceled for these episodes. But it's like it takes a strong man to to go. I want to be in a relationship with someone who has ambitions and goals, and I know that that might mean that traditional things, like shift in our family. And I've seen it work so well with partners who are like, okay, it makes more sense that you are making more money right now.

So I am going to look after the kids full time, or I'm going to have the boring, stable job so you can do the creative, wacky things, or I'm going to, have a job where there's no more travel so you can travel. And I, I think it's really healthy in that dynamic to look at that in your family and go, okay, what do we both need?

What's going to work best for our family right now? Taking ego aside. Right. And that's can be really, really tricky in some relationships. So I think it's just a really juicy and juicy thing. Also, I think when I was really in Empire building and Mark would like would be saying, you know, oh well, it's not fair that I'm doing more of the cooking.

And I go, well, I'm not going to do any of the cooking. So what's the solution? We're going to outsource it because the solution isn't me doing more of it. It's neither of us doing it. And so that's when we hired, more help at home rather than in the business, because I was just uncompromising on that. I was just like, nope, I'm not going to do the laundry.

It's not a good use of my time right now when I can be making money. Now, when I'm not in empire building phase. I don't need that level of support anymore. But also, I still feel kind of entitled. I'm like, no, yes, you should make me breakfast. I have breakfast in bed every day. But I do.

I do laundry now. So I think it's just thank you for asking the question, and I'm always happy to share, even if it you know, opens me up to criticism because it is a new way of being. And we don't really know what what this looks like. And we have to create it for ourselves sometimes. And that takes conversation and, and support.

You know what's really funny, though? I'm like, oh, what am I teaching the kids? Because when George was like five and he hadn't yet started school, he said to me, he goes, you know, daddies can be leaders, too. You know? And, I just looked at him. I was like, what? And he goes, daddies are allowed to be leaders.

Two daddies can be in charge, you know? And I was like, yeah, because I was thinking, oh my God, he doesn't know that the world is is largely controlled by men. And most leadership positions are men and most companies are run by men and most countries are run by men. And it's like, yeah, George. But like he in our house, in our world, he was like, this is unfair.

I just think that's just such an interesting thing. And I think now he's seeing more of the world. But like, the kids understand that dynamic in our house and they see it. And I'm like with the girls, they're going to expect that from a partner, right? That, you know, my dad always cooked in my childhood. So why don't you cook, you know, and like it really took me pushing back a lot on things like that.

Like, you know, I remember his mum was like, oh, do you, me to teach you how to iron? And I was like, I know how to iron, but I work as well. Why should I iron he shirts? And I'm like, he doesn't have to iron them, know he can outsource and I'm not going to organize that. This is really interesting, pushing back on some of those things.

From other people. Yeah, yeah. But thank you for that question. It was just. Yeah, a very, kind of juicy Jake one. Okay, cool. Really quick. This is more of a general question. I think, too, that people ask all the time is if my partner is really negative about money, how do I help? Them. Not always him.

How do I help them with their money mindset. And I actually see this quite common, right? Where there's like a really creative person and a really kind of non creative person and they somehow come together and it's like opposites attract. So I've got some interesting thoughts and tips on this for you after this break.

Okay. Welcome back. So yes, this is a big question. I get a lot. How do I get my, my partner on board with money mindset? Okay. So a couple of things. One, I always say work on your own money mindset. First, be responsible for your own. And also, for a while, try not to be super spongy.

And by that, I mean, if they say something negative, don't take it off and just be like, no, okay, bounce back. And you can almost like, imagine you suffering a hazmat suit or cutting the thoughts as they come to you. Okay. So yours first shield up. Then I would say have a conversation, be curious about this okay. Be curious about it.

And by that I mean like, hey, what are some of your money memories? Like, did you get pocket money as a kid? Did you get allowance? Who made the money? Like, did your mum work? You know, what did your dad do? For money. Like, what fight did your parents have about money? And some of these questions sound a bit contrived, but this is what the work that we do in money boot camp, right?

This is the work that you're doing by listening to this podcast. I'm sure you've read money books, and we forget sometimes that we're immersed in this world, and sometimes our partners are not. So they don't have the same shared language that we do. And they're not they're not actively doing the work sometimes. Right. And so you can sit down and just have that compassion and understanding for where this where there's some of that attitudes have come from, you know, and it's they might not have ever thought about it before, just like maybe you never thought about it before until you started doing the work either.

And some people will say that they've never they didn't even think they had money blocks until they read my book, get Rich, lucky bitch. Right. So think about that with your partner. And it could just be like, hey. Yeah, well, you know, did you have a part time job as a kid? Oh, my God, I have to show you.

So, I really pride myself. I had jobs from a very early age, and I remember Mark saying he was like, I was the best newspaper delivery boy in Nantwich. And I'd always get the biggest tips. And, and then his mum was like, yeah, but when it rained, I drove you around and and threw you through the newspapers out the window.

And I remember teasing him so much for that. But I know he he was a hard worker, but I was like, of course you must. Of course your mum helped you. But anyway, put that aside. It was a really interesting thing, right, to be able to have those conversations. How much should you make? Well, and Mark had a business selling sweets at school.

That's so interesting, you know, to hear those things, but also traumatic things as well, to have understanding and appreciation for what they might be overcompensating for. Maybe they had really frugal parents. And so that's where some of that frugality came from. And it's not even from their parents. It's from their great, great, great grandparents who were in a famine.

And then you can understand that and appreciate that more. And the idea of this is not to coach them necessarily, but to understand and to, again, have that shared language of like, that's where our blocks come from, right? So that's something that you can do. Another thing that you can do is to play my books. I'm not even going to say like, okay, play playing my books.

But this has worked for a lot of people playing my audiobooks in the car or at home. And you'll be surprised what starts to soak in. And I know I have some partner fans high volume out there who are listening. When you're in your partner's car and you're like, oh, what is Denise said recently? Or shout out to the partners who are sick of hearing.

But Denise says Anthony says to do blah, blah blah, or you're hearing they're like, the jingle. And you're like, it's time to listen to chill and prosper. And you're like, oh my God, that you prosper, lady again. But that is a really good way to start to introduce some of these concepts, just to play it around.

And sometimes things like get picked up. Right. And then I have hobbies come sometimes and patterns, I'm like, I like your work, too. That's that's a good one. I think, as well, being vulnerable. Once you start to understand where your triggers come from, if your partner unknowingly triggers you. And Mark used to unknowingly trigger me when he would say, there's not enough money or we don't have any money for my mum to say we don't have any money meant that.

Like, I mean, I would never even heard her say like that, except for, like, one time in my childhood, right? She was so optimistic. But it really triggered, made a very, very deep level. And so to be vulnerable and say, hey, when you talk about money this way, this is how it makes me feel. It makes me feel like a little kid.

It makes me feel like things are really dire. And it triggers my fight or flight. And I'd really appreciate it if you didn't say that. And I think being vulnerable like that really, really helped, because I was still taking responsibility for my own money mindset. But I was asking for help, and then we'd have just a few little, like, catch phrases that we would say to be the pattern interrupter.

Right? And so, instead of saying, we don't have any money, I was like, why don't we say lucky? We're rich? And he was like, but why would we say that when we don't have any money? And I'd be like, well, let's just pretend that we're abundant, lucky we're rich. And we still say that today, like millions of dollars later.

And it would be like, oh, we need, you know, we need new tires for the car. And we'd be like, lucky, we're rich. And it just it's a funny little pattern interrupter. So you can start saying things like that. You know, you can start saying affirmations. I love money, and money loves me. You can have a competition.

Let's see who can find the most coins, you know, let's see, you can manifest more money and you can make it part of your shared language as a family, even if it's just the two of you to, change your language about money. You know, you can do things like dream boards. You can do, have affirmations around the house, all of those things.

Kind of a subtle and subliminal a little bit sometimes, but they actually do make a difference. I love subliminal audios, so I, I've created a ton of them. If you're in money boot camp, we have them in the bonus section. And just play them when you go to sleep, play them around the house. Just don't play it in the car.

You do not play them when you're doing something like you have to concentrate on, but, play them at night when you're going to sleep. They've got like nice, lovely music on, on them. And then there's affirmations and they do go in. And I've had people, I've had a couple of people say, yes, my patterns be more positive and they've sad to say different things.

I've had someone say that their cat started bringing home lots of mice, so they cats obviously got in the abundance as well. And just cute little things, you know, that you can say together. Like when we started having kids, we'd be like, babies bring abundance, you know, and it's just cute little things like that that, help us keep things much more positive together.

I will say, though, sometimes people, come into my world or coming to money boot camp, or they're scared to join Money Boot Camp because they know that if they expand, then their partner might not necessarily come with them. And this this is really a very valid fear because sometimes that is the case. I'm not going to lie.

Like sometimes you're holding yourself back because you know that your partner is not the person to support you in doing big things in the world. I've had people who've started businesses and have been sabotaged by their partner. I've had one lady, like her partner would turn off the internet when he went to work, because he didn't want her to start a business, because he was afraid that she was going to leave him.

And she did eventually. And so I'm not saying that this work is going to ruin your marriage or your partnership. I'm hoping that it enhances it. And when two people are manifesting together, like some really magical things can happen for sure. So don't be afraid and don't hold yourself back because you're worried, that they're not going to grow with you.

There's been times where Mark and I have not grown together at the same pace, and that's okay as well. You know, we'll catch up eventually. But please don't hold yourself back because you worried about about them. Yes. So, I think to having shared goals and dreams together. So, whether that's doing dream boards together or going to visit, how dream houses together.

That's the sort of stuff that can really, like, pull you together into a, into a different phase. It really can, yeah. And and that's the thing, if your partner's like, oh, no, we, we don't have the money to go and even look at houses, you can just be like, well, dreaming is free. Let's just go and have a look.

And that's the sort of stuff that, can be difficult if you do like dragging someone along to something that doesn't even cost money to dream. And that can feel very frustrating. So don't hold yourself back again. Don't go. Oh, well, I won't go and have a look. Just go and have a look. Give yourself permission to look into dream and to do things. 

And I do remember one time we were walking along street and I was like, oh my God, look that dress. And Mark put his hands over my eyes and he said, don't even look. And I was like, what? I'm not even allowed to look. And I realized it was just triggering old stories of mine of like, I'm unworthy, I'm undeserving.

Of good things. And I was like, no, that words have power. I don't say things like that to me. I'm deserving of it. And I was really talking to myself. But it was his, you know, words were showing up and triggering me. So I think partnership can be a such, such a beautiful place to learn and grow together.

It really can. And you're responsible for your own money mindset. That's that's what it is. Right. So, I think what's cool, though, is that you can share some of those things as you're learning them. And I always, always kind of a bit frustrated that I was like, I'm doing the work, I'm doing the courses, I'm reading the books.

And then I like share the CliffsNotes version with Mark. And he just was like, oh, okay, I get that. And I'm like, that's not fair. But then I'm like, well, that's kind of cool that he can absorb information so quickly like that and just believe me and be on board. He's like, yep, cool. I don't need to go through the process that you went through.

I'm on board with that. I'm like, oh, okay, great. So, you might feel a bit resentful about that, like I did. And you can just be like, that's fine. I think I got to the point to where I was like, I am, I am the one who has to do this. And at first I was resentful about it.

I was like, I am the one. I have to change our family's fortune. I have to be the one to break the cycle. I have to be the one to create the millions of dollars. And I was like a bit annoyed about it. I'm like, why? And then I was like, oh, if it's meant to be, it is going to be me doing it.

And that's okay, I will. I'm going to step into that power role because I do want it. I do want it, and I'm not going to wait for someone else to create it for me. I'm going to create it. Right? And then it became then it became a privilege. Right? Then it was like, oh no. Yep, I'm going to make it happen.

I'm not going to wait. Yeah. And that was kind of that was kind of cool thing too. Okay, cool. I've got one final thought for you after this last break, so don't go away soon.

I mentioned to at the start that some people, who come into money boot camp, they feel like they can't have both love and money.

This is true for people who are single, people who are in a relationship, and they're just like, if I make more money, as this is true for I think for a lot of women, they're like, if I have money in power, then I won't be attractive to men or they'll be threatened. And you know what? That is true.

There will be a lot of partners who will not like that power dynamic. And that's okay. That's okay. But it's not a binary thing. You can have love and money, you can be vulnerable and money you can and have money. You can be in your feminine and be wealthy. And yes, it's, like it is a delicate balance.

I'm not going to lie. You know, there aren't a lot of role models for this new way of being for a lot of us. And that's okay too, right? So you can get help. You know, couples therapy is great. Having, someone external to talk to you sometimes can be great. Both partners should absolutely have their own therapist and do their own work sometimes.

Mark and I see the same kinesiology. And sometimes you have back to backs with both of us. It's like, okay, now you hear my side of the story. But I think it's. Yeah, it's it's great to be in a relationship with someone who also does their own work. So if you are single, write a list of everything that you want in a partner, including some of those things about that.

They're, you know, okay, with the power dynamic that they're willing to grow and learn, that they're happy to have these conversations. They're curious about their own blocks. And this one who actively works on their blocks, too, because, you know, none of us are perfect. And then we're in a relationship with a human who's also not perfect. And that's going to bring up stuff, right?

It's not going to be perfect. So give yourself permission to do it anyway, whether you have the support or not. Give yourself permission to be able to do it because you want to do it. Give yourself permission to have all the support. As you grow and shift through this new phase of being. Yes. All right. Cool.

So, as I said, if this is something you know, you want to work on, come and join us in Money boot camp. The website for that is denisedt.com/bootcamp. Now is a great time to join, to come and work on this stuff. So you and your family or your legacy can break through the cycle and do something new, you know, and and really increase your quality of life to be a first class life, whatever that means for you.

All right, my lovelies, I'll see you there. And, see you next week for another episode of Chill and Husky. Take care. Bye. Thanks for listening to Chill and Prosper. Tell your friends to chill and prosper. Review and subscribe. We hope you had a very good time.